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Greenback Posts: 6
| A recent trend is evolving among a very small contingent of the fishing forum community. It is asking fishing charter and fishing related business owners to pay for the "priviledge" of adding their company hyperlink or logo to the signature block of their personal profile. From a web advertising perspective, this is a bad investment and a bad idea. Purchasing links on any site is a quick way to send your site into the google graveyard. Plus, the price you pay is far higher than the gain. Taking a local website forum as an example, I can give yoeu an dea of what to expect: I gathered all of the data from my web analytics software for a two year period and tracked the amount of visitors I received from my signature block on Captain Mel's Forum where, prior to recent changes, I had a graphic with an embedded hyperlink. In two years, I received just around 100 visitors from the site out of nearly 17,000 visitors. That equates to 0.06% of my total visits or 1/6th of one percent. These visits resulted in low quality traffic that had a shallow depth and produced no yield in terms of contact or sales. Of course, why would they? These signature blocks are just that, signature blocks. They are not advertising space and visitors to forums do not see them as advertising. In many circumstances, advertising in those areas is considered to be off-putting and serves against your aims. Many sites that sell these types of ads will advertise their overall metrics when advertising them. If you are seriously considering these options, ask for the metrics on just those pages you are planning on advertising on. Don't listen to the aggregate numbers because they will always be inflated. Look for the data. If it doesn't exist, ask for it. Signature block advertising is also detrimental to your site. If your site is found to be on to many pages in a short amount of time, Google will actually lower your search ranking. Part of its algorithm is to check for recent updates and changes. If all of your messages on a forum suddenly have links in them, Google knows and degrades your ranking accordingly. In short, signature block "advertising" is a bad idea. They are not worth your time or money. If you are being asked to pay for something as simple as the space you sign your messages.... run! ----- Ozello Shrimper: Recreational Shrimping Information & Equipment | |
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 Admin Posts: 1620
   Location: Pinellas Point | I appreciate your thoughtful and well written post. I thought I might take the time, as well, to let everyone know that we wouldn't tolerate the bashing, flaming of other forums here (this doesn't refer to your post as it is neither, but for others future reference).
I only mention that as there was a big falling out on one of the fishing forums a couple of years ago and someone took that opportunity to allow all sorts of very nasty and inappropriate posts about the original forum to gain members. It gave me a very bad impression of the site, forum and site owner which remains to this day.
At any rate, I don't fault anyone for trying to make a buck by monetizing their site/forum in new/different ways. It seems that whatever the policy is... it must work over the long haul for advertisers for the feature to continue.
In that vain, I'll comment on the policies here and why they are so and add a couple of notes about search engines as they relate to your post.
We encourage reputable, local fishing related businesses to add a link to their site in their signature file. It seems the least that we can do for those who take the time to register and add quality content. Everytime a new thread is started, we gain an additional page. If the thread is of value, outside the forum, it may garner a link or two and perhaps a few references on the social bookmarking sites which would have a positive effect on our site's overall optimization efforts.
Add to that, links in signature files are a service to visitors as well. It makes it easy for visitors to find references to reputable, local businesses and saves them from sending a PM or doing an internet search. It's just one small, but essential, piece in the process of community building from our perspective.
I agree with your sentiments surrounding the analysis of traffic and the return on advertising investments. Know what you're investing in and take the time to calculate the return on each dollar. Just counting the referrals without looking at the traffic patterns is just slightly better than not looking at all.
About the search engines... this is kinda my thing. I have a few years of experience in search engine optimization participated in thousands of discussions and hundreds of experiments where different theories have been tested.
To be clear, the purchase of advertising links is considered to be a manipulation of Google Page Rank and thereby a violation of Google's Webmaster Guidelines. To get around that Google advises the use of the no follow attribute on all paid advertising links. (a tag added in the html of the link text which tells search engines not to pass on any link strength to the site, but it's clear that these links do not stop the spider from visiting the linked page)
To see how easy it is to make Google aware of an issue, sign up for Webmaster Tools Account and look to your right after logging in. How seriously all of those reports are taken are quite another thing and it's clear that there are sites that sell advertising links, without the no follow attribute without any visible penalty.
This is also why we strongly encourage webmasters not to participate in reciprocal linking schemes, as it too is considered a manipulation of Google Page Rank, a violation of their terms of service and just as easy to report.
Signature links, in all practicality, are viewed differently as they do not carry the weight of other links as they relate to search engines. It has been tested repeatedly and the current climate indicates that Google gives very little/if any weight to forum signature links though the last time I tested it they still gave a nice little boost in Yahoo and more so in MSN. The major benefit with Google is in spidering, again the last time I tested it, forum sig links were very effective at getting new sites/pages crawled quickly.
Well, I think that's about it. Sorry for such a long reply and thanks again for starting the thread. These are all things worthy of further discussion, especially for the captains that want to get the best bang for their intenet buck. ----- Bay Area Boat Ramps | Tampa Bay Dockside Dining | |
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Blue Runner Posts: 76
   Location: Tampa | I have to say I really appreciate the info given here. I had no idea that a paid signature link could do more harm than good. I know on my part that a web site up grade is probably the number one thing I need in order for my site to be more effective. The thing I have trouble understanding is where to go next as far as being found in the search engines. I know some do Pay per Click but I really dont understand that and what little research Ive done on it seems to be a little risky monetarily. In the end it just seems that the small operation can be nickled and dimed to death. ----- Capt. Steve Betz
813-727-8843
captainsteve@flatsandbay.com
Flats And Bay Fishing Charters | |
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 Admin Posts: 1620
   Location: Pinellas Point | I don't think there's any real chance of incurring a penalty from forum sig links... paid or otherwise. There's a really popular search engine forum that's been allowing it for years with no adverse effect. (forum sig links are bought/sold between members, not by the site admin)
As far as search engines... it's all about the links. Build a divers portolio of quality, relevant and well anchored links to your site and you'll see the improvement you're looking for. The best, and what Google recommends, is to gain these links naturally by writing compelling content so that other webmasters will want to link to you. Other methods of gaining links are: forum posts, blog posts, article submissions, blog comments, reciprocal linking (excessive recips are a violation of Google's TOS), paid links (also a violation of Google's TOS), web directories, link bait, etc.
As far as PPC it's really not all that risky as the terms that you're targeting are very cheap. I'd do a good bit of reading on writing a compelling ad and a lot on crafting your landing page first as it will increase your quality score and your campaign will be a lot more efficient. The bottom line though is that you get to set your daily budget and if you start slowly you're not going to lose a whole lot, but you might learn a whole lot. While I'm on the landing page thing, this is always a factor in conversions whether your using a PPC service, Adwords or renting a signature link on a forum. P.S. I took the liberty of editing your signature file to include a link to your site. It will be followed by search engines and make it a little easier for visitors to find you.
----- Bay Area Boat Ramps | Tampa Bay Dockside Dining | |
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Blue Runner Posts: 76
   Location: Tampa | Thanks for the link repair Scott. ----- Capt. Steve Betz
813-727-8843
captainsteve@flatsandbay.com
Flats And Bay Fishing Charters | |
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 Admin Posts: 1620
   Location: Pinellas Point | No worries, and while we're on it.... if you're game it might be a nice little test of forum sig links and page titles. For the hell of it I Googled your business name and didn't find you in the first 700 results. (Flats and Bay Fishing Charters). Why not change the title on your home page to be Flats and Bay Fishing Charters - Captain Steve Betz and then make a commitment to posting here twice a week (with the tweaked signature link) and maybe once a week at another forum that will allow you a free signature link. If you'll do that I'll check the results maybe once a week and update this thread accordingly. If you need any help with the page title please let me know.
----- Bay Area Boat Ramps | Tampa Bay Dockside Dining | |
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